Please not Toshack

[Eddie70]

The problem we have here is that the club is in a terrible situation. We have just lost parachute payments and we have owners who have decided that financial stability is our no 1 priority. Whilst that sounds like a reasobale aim they will do it not by investment but by continuing to deplete the playing squad. Were competitive last season by using loans and by having Ayew. Now Andre is gone and it seems that even loans are out of our price range.

The way I see it and Eustace and Cooper can see this too, is that we are heading for league 1 if not this season then certainly next after the yanks spend another season degrading the clubs playing squad. Does anyone seriously think that if any players leave they will be adequately replaced. We cant even stand still at the moment let alone improve.

I keep coming back to the same thing though - we did it last time by establishing a playing style which everyone understood, and was executed with aplomb (as opposed to the plum we've had for the past 2 seasons). We didn't have/need any superstars, high earners really back then did we - it was very much a collective.

It's not the same situation though. The owners at that time (before they destroyed thier legacy) were improving the team year on year, we were building, they cared about the club not just its accounts but the club itself. If you look at the team that won the playoffs in 2011, it would tear this team a new one without breaking sweat.

 

[SwansFan1912]

I keep coming back to the same thing though - we did it last time by establishing a playing style which everyone understood, and was executed with aplomb (as opposed to the plum we've had for the past 2 seasons). We didn't have/need any superstars, high earners really back then did we - it was very much a collective.

It's not the same situation though. The owners at that time (before they destroyed thier legacy) were improving the team year on year, we were building, they cared about the club not just its accounts but the club itself. If you look at the team that won the playoffs in 2011, it would tear this team a new one without breaking sweat.

Add in the fact that what we were doing last time was new to the game in England, it was revolutionary. Now there's a dozen or more teams doing the same thing... it has been found out. Style isn't enough, you need quality players

 

[ARQS]

Add in the fact that what we were doing last time was new to the game in England, it was revolutionary. Now there's a dozen or more teams doing the same thing... it has been found out. Style isn't enough, you need quality players

We did have quality players though. They were able to grow with us through the divisions. We were an attractive team because we were a club on the up.

The spine of that team were signed by us for hardly anything when we were in the bottom two leagues - Tate, Monk, Leon, Pratley, Rangel, DeVris. Williams a bit less so because we'd all but sealed promotion from League One when he signed.

The rest of that team was one "marquee" signing in Sinclair, one good loanee in Borini, a player who had lost his way a bit (Dyer) and some squad fodder journeymen.

Today's equivalents of Leon, Tate, Monk, Rangel, etc. when we signed them are probably signing for teams in Leagues One and Two this summer. We need to find the likes of those players as they were after a few years with us however even then they won't have the luxury of the time in the Championship that their predecessors had as many of our fans have written them off before they've kicked a ball because they're not some random Belgian that costs £5m.

You could argue that signing the likes of Piroe, Joseph, Whittaker, Lowe, Walsh, we are getting back to exactly where we once were.

 

[Jinxy]

It's not the same situation though. The owners at that time (before they destroyed thier legacy) were improving the team year on year, we were building, they cared about the club not just its accounts but the club itself. If you look at the team that won the playoffs in 2011, it would tear this team a new one without breaking sweat.

Add in the fact that what we were doing last time was new to the game in England, it was revolutionary. Now there's a dozen or more teams doing the same thing... it has been found out. Style isn't enough, you need quality players

But we did it for 6 years or so. Not so sure the style has been "found out", but more widely adopted and accepted (in your face Lineker, Shearer etc. who poked fun) as a more consistent and controlled style of play. I don't think we've had that since Potter left. My view is Cooperball could never have worked in the PL - we'd be annihilated. I believe we need to establish that style, and yes, a few shrewd quality signings. I spoke with one of the players at length the other day (a lovely chat), and in that regard he said "but we must win games". We've been deploying a shortism approach since Cooper arrived.

 

[SwansFan1912]

Add in the fact that what we were doing last time was new to the game in England, it was revolutionary. Now there's a dozen or more teams doing the same thing... it has been found out. Style isn't enough, you need quality players

But we did it for 6 years or so. Not so sure the style has been "found out", but more widely adopted and accepted (in your face Lineker, Shearer etc. who poked fun) as a more consistent and controlled style of play. I don't think we've had that since Potter left. My view is Cooperball could never have worked in the PL - we'd be annihilated. I believe we need to establish that style, and yes, a few shrewd quality signings. I spoke with one of the players at length the other day (a lovely chat), and in that regard he said "but we must win games". We've been deploying a shortism approach since Cooper arrived.

How would you describe Cooperball out of curiosity? Can't deny it worked, didn't we only concede like 10 goals up until January or something. Imagine we kept that defensive rigidity and developed more of an attacking threat this season. Let's hope

 

[Baron Goblet]

You could argue that signing the likes of Piroe, Joseph, Whittaker, Lowe, Walsh, we are getting back to exactly where we once were.

I believe that to be the case. We have a stronger squad than last season. I think we lack a Ronald Koeman and so will have to come up with a style that suits. Grimes always looks comfortable and Guehi was goinh well. Cardiff's Morrison is excellent I would be looking to sign him.

 

[Jinxy]

But we did it for 6 years or so. Not so sure the style has been "found out", but more widely adopted and accepted (in your face Lineker, Shearer etc. who poked fun) as a more consistent and controlled style of play. I don't think we've had that since Potter left. My view is Cooperball could never have worked in the PL - we'd be annihilated. I believe we need to establish that style, and yes, a few shrewd quality signings. I spoke with one of the players at length the other day (a lovely chat), and in that regard he said "but we must win games". We've been deploying a shortism approach since Cooper arrived.

How would you describe Cooperball out of curiosity? Can't deny it worked, didn't we only concede like 10 goals up until January or something. Imagine we kept that defensive rigidity and developed more of an attacking threat this season. Let's hope

I'd describe it as don't concede, don't lose possession n our final third, any doubt pass it long etc., then rely on a mistake or moment of skill etc. to win some games. and draw others. I always got the feeling that the players were told by all means pass etc., but whatever you do don't lose it playing out from defence. Remember Brenda taking the blame for either Rangel/Taylor once losing possession which led to a goal? Took all the pressure off them. Players will generally do as instructed, and if they're told to be brave, they generally will - or get dropped/replaced! Same for the past 2 seasons I suppose. That's my loose definition of Cooperball. Sadly, there was a point I thought he was learning, but ultimately that's his style/approach - it's not easy in any hot seat though is it - everyone thinks they can do better until they try it, and all the pressure is on them. That separates the men from the boys I guess.

 

[Vetchonian]

How would you describe Cooperball out of curiosity? Can't deny it worked, didn't we only concede like 10 goals up until January or something. Imagine we kept that defensive rigidity and developed more of an attacking threat this season. Let's hope

I'd describe it as don't concede, don't lose possession n our final third, any doubt pass it long etc., then rely on a mistake or moment of skill etc. to win some games. and draw others. I always got the feeling that the players were told by all means pass etc., but whatever you do don't lose it playing out from defence. Remember Brenda taking the blame for either Rangel/Taylor once losing possession which led to a goal? Took all the pressure off them. Players will generally do as instructed, and if they're told to be brave, they generally will - or get dropped/replaced! Same for the past 2 seasons I suppose. That's my loose definition of Cooperball. Sadly, there was a point I thought he was learning, but ultimately that's his style/approach - it's not easy in any hot seat though is it - everyone thinks they can do better until they try it, and all the pressure is on them. That separates the men from the boys I guess.

You need to watch this especially from anout 2.01 on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijuHiH-T9Hk

Ben Cabango receives the ball under pressure in our box from a back pass from Dhanda he takes a touch then passes it a directed pass not a hoof to Ayew which results in some interpassing and then Grimes making a break, there are some other examples of us attacking too even thoug hwe were 1-0 up ....

I think the think that has affected peoples view is that the majorit y if Coopers football has been watched on tv with no crowds...I admit we had periods where it got hoofy but I think that was mainly down to Bennet who always appears to be saftey first....Cooper began leaving him on the bench....prefering Cabango and Geuhi with Naughton all 3 capable of playing he ball out.

 

[Jinxy]

I'd describe it as don't concede, don't lose possession n our final third, any doubt pass it long etc., then rely on a mistake or moment of skill etc. to win some games. and draw others. I always got the feeling that the players were told by all means pass etc., but whatever you do don't lose it playing out from defence. Remember Brenda taking the blame for either Rangel/Taylor once losing possession which led to a goal? Took all the pressure off them. Players will generally do as instructed, and if they're told to be brave, they generally will - or get dropped/replaced! Same for the past 2 seasons I suppose. That's my loose definition of Cooperball. Sadly, there was a point I thought he was learning, but ultimately that's his style/approach - it's not easy in any hot seat though is it - everyone thinks they can do better until they try it, and all the pressure is on them. That separates the men from the boys I guess.

You need to watch this especially from anout 2.01 on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijuHiH-T9Hk

Ben Cabango receives the ball under pressure in our box from a back pass from Dhanda he takes a touch then passes it a directed pass not a hoof to Ayew which results in some interpassing and then Grimes making a break, there are some other examples of us attacking too even thoug hwe were 1-0 up ....

I think the think that has affected peoples view is that the majorit y if Coopers football has been watched on tv with no crowds...I admit we had periods where it got hoofy but I think that was mainly down to Bennet who always appears to be saftey first....Cooper began leaving him on the bench....prefering Cabango and Geuhi with Naughton all 3 capable of playing he ball out.

Yes, I think there were times we did play it out nicely (esp mid season - when not so much pressure??), and I think that was the frustration - we had the ability and organisation to do so. You're right in that the camera ball watches (and therefore you don't get to see options - or not - for the player in possession). There may have been a fear (or a touch of the Ki-Seung-Yung's), or lack of fitness, that resulted in players not making themselves available. I just believe Cooper didn't absorb pressure very well, which transmitted onto the pitch. Just my opinion, and all in the past anyway now eh! Thanks for the link though.