Stop expecting perfection from us - top referee

[JustJack]

OK so just post one link if they're that easy?

We both know they’re out there and fairly easy to find.

If you just want to be argumentative for the sack of it, crack on.

 

[Smurph]

OK so just post one link if they're that easy?

We both know they’re out there and fairly easy to find.

If you just want to be argumentative for the sack of it, crack on.

 

[swansvalleyjack]

ChatGPT has give me my final say on this subject.

The standard of refereeing in the English league simply isn’t

For the sake of balance, here's Chat GPT giving an alternate view


Part 1: Reasons Why Referees are Generally Good at Their Job

1. Rigorous Training and Selection: Becoming a top-level referee in England is an incredibly demanding process. It takes years of progression through the amateur and semi-professional ranks, with continuous assessment, fitness tests, and technical exams. The system is designed to filter out those who cannot consistently perform under pressure.

2. Professionalism and Fitness: Since the professionalisation of refereeing, officials are full-time athletes. Their fitness levels are exceptional, allowing them to keep up with the pace of the modern game and be in the best possible position to make calls. The introduction of VAR has also added another layer of professional analysis to their work.

3. Referees are the ultimate authority on the pitch, tasked with managing 22 highly competitive athletes, passionate managers, and a volatile crowd. The vast majority of decisions in a game are non-controversial and correct.

Part 2: Reasons for Unjustified Criticism and Abuse

The abuse often far outweighs the genuine mistakes, for these reasons:

1. Tribalism
# Passionate Investment: Fans don't see a neutral sporting contest; they see a battle where their tribe (their team) must win. Any decision against their team is seen as a personal affront and an injustice.

# Seeing What You Want to See:
A fan's view of an incident is almost always filtered through their loyalty. A 50/50 challenge will look like a clear foul to one set of fans and a clean tackle to the other. The referee's neutral view is often impossible for a partisan fan to comprehend.

2. The High-Stakes, High-Profile Nature of the Game:
Financial and Emotional Consequences:
A single decision can be worth hundreds of millions of pounds (through promotion, relegation, or Champions League qualification). The emotional investment is also immense. When so much is on the line, the figure of authority who makes a perceived error becomes a convenient scapegoat for a loss or a dropped point.

3. Punditry
Media outlets and TV pundits, many of them former players, often focus intensely on controversial decisions. Slow-motion replays from multiple angles, freeze-frames, and passionate studio debates create an illusion that the correct decision was "obvious," ignoring the fact the referee had to make it in real-time, at full speed, from one angle.

4. Lack of Nuance:
Complex laws of the game (like the offside rule or the handball interpretation) are often poorly explained, leading to outrage based on a misunderstanding of the actual rule.

5. The Introduction of VAR:

Ironically, the technology designed to help referees has, in some ways, increased the criticism. VAR was supposed to eliminate "clear and obvious errors," but it has created a new set of controversies around millimeter offsides and subjective interpretations of "clear and obvious." Now, instead of just blaming the referee on the pitch, fans and pundits blame the "faceless" VAR official, creating a two-tier system of abuse. The expectation is now 100% perfection, which is unattainable.

6. A Culture of Normalised Abuse:

It's "Part of the Game": For decades, abusing the referee has been culturally accepted—from the stands, from the dugout, and from players. This normalisation means that even minor, subjective calls are met with howls of derision and personal insults that would be unacceptable in almost any other professional context. This creates a feedback loop where new fans learn that this behaviour is standard.

7. Lack of Empathy and Understanding:

The Human Element: Very few critics have ever tried to referee a game themselves. They don't appreciate the immense difficulty of the job: the split-second decisions, the need to manage player emotions, the fitness required, and the psychological toll of constant abuse. This lack of lived experience leads to a dehumanisation of the official, who is seen not as a person trying to do a difficult job, but as an obstacle or a villain.

In summary:
Football referees are highly trained professionals who successfully officiate the world's most intense and fast paced game However, a perfect storm of tribal passion, high financial stakes, media amplification, the unintended consequences of technology, and a deeply ingrained culture of abuse means that their genuine, and relatively infrequent, mistakes are magnified into a narrative of incompetence, leading to criticism and abuse that is often wildly disproportionate to their overall performance.

 

[Smurph]

For the sake of balance, here's Chat GPT giving an alternate view


Part 1: Reasons Why Referees are Generally Good at Their Job

1. Rigorous Training and Selection: Becoming a top-level referee in England is an incredibly demanding process. It takes years of progression through the amateur and semi-professional ranks, with continuous assessment, fitness tests, and technical exams. The system is designed to filter out those who cannot consistently perform under pressure.

2. Professionalism and Fitness: Since the professionalisation of refereeing, officials are full-time athletes. Their fitness levels are exceptional, allowing them to keep up with the pace of the modern game and be in the best possible position to make calls. The introduction of VAR has also added another layer of professional analysis to their work.

3. Referees are the ultimate authority on the pitch, tasked with managing 22 highly competitive athletes, passionate managers, and a volatile crowd. The vast majority of decisions in a game are non-controversial and correct.

Part 2: Reasons for Unjustified Criticism and Abuse

The abuse often far outweighs the genuine mistakes, for these reasons:

1. Tribalism
# Passionate Investment: Fans don't see a neutral sporting contest; they see a battle where their tribe (their team) must win. Any decision against their team is seen as a personal affront and an injustice.

# Seeing What You Want to See:
A fan's view of an incident is almost always filtered through their loyalty. A 50/50 challenge will look like a clear foul to one set of fans and a clean tackle to the other. The referee's neutral view is often impossible for a partisan fan to comprehend.

2. The High-Stakes, High-Profile Nature of the Game:
Financial and Emotional Consequences:
A single decision can be worth hundreds of millions of pounds (through promotion, relegation, or Champions League qualification). The emotional investment is also immense. When so much is on the line, the figure of authority who makes a perceived error becomes a convenient scapegoat for a loss or a dropped point.

3. Punditry
Media outlets and TV pundits, many of them former players, often focus intensely on controversial decisions. Slow-motion replays from multiple angles, freeze-frames, and passionate studio debates create an illusion that the correct decision was "obvious," ignoring the fact the referee had to make it in real-time, at full speed, from one angle.

4. Lack of Nuance:
Complex laws of the game (like the offside rule or the handball interpretation) are often poorly explained, leading to outrage based on a misunderstanding of the actual rule.

5. The Introduction of VAR:

Ironically, the technology designed to help referees has, in some ways, increased the criticism. VAR was supposed to eliminate "clear and obvious errors," but it has created a new set of controversies around millimeter offsides and subjective interpretations of "clear and obvious." Now, instead of just blaming the referee on the pitch, fans and pundits blame the "faceless" VAR official, creating a two-tier system of abuse. The expectation is now 100% perfection, which is unattainable.

6. A Culture of Normalised Abuse:

It's "Part of the Game": For decades, abusing the referee has been culturally accepted—from the stands, from the dugout, and from players. This normalisation means that even minor, subjective calls are met with howls of derision and personal insults that would be unacceptable in almost any other professional context. This creates a feedback loop where new fans learn that this behaviour is standard.

7. Lack of Empathy and Understanding:

The Human Element: Very few critics have ever tried to referee a game themselves. They don't appreciate the immense difficulty of the job: the split-second decisions, the need to manage player emotions, the fitness required, and the psychological toll of constant abuse. This lack of lived experience leads to a dehumanisation of the official, who is seen not as a person trying to do a difficult job, but as an obstacle or a villain.

In summary:
Football referees are highly trained professionals who successfully officiate the world's most intense and fast paced game However, a perfect storm of tribal passion, high financial stakes, media amplification, the unintended consequences of technology, and a deeply ingrained culture of abuse means that their genuine, and relatively infrequent, mistakes are magnified into a narrative of incompetence, leading to criticism and abuse that is often wildly disproportionate to their overall performance.

Explain this -

 

[JustJack]

Its all about emotional intelligence

Its devoid in football both on and off the field sadly

 

[swansvalleyjack]

Explain this -

It's a mistake

You forgot to include the thousands of decisions which aren't a mistake

 

[Smurph]

It's a mistake

 

[swansvalleyjack]

I think we'll agree to disagree Smurph

 

[Smurph]

I think we'll agree to disagree Smurph

Yeah, a truce sounds like a good way to finish this debate

 

[BendJack]

Get competent referees into the game and you'll see the rate of abuse they receive go down. Sure, the players and supporters of a team being penalized won't be happy but the visible rise of quality will be noticed by everyone, eventually. They'll be seen a lot less as spineless idiots if they did their job professionally.

Clearly, not all referees are subject to the volume of errors and dubious calls others make.

There have been many occasions where I, along with others around me in the stands, have noticed the linesmen/women not keeping up with the defensive line and attack, they're completely missing offsides, handballs and even line crosses - so when asked whether they saw any infractions they're obviously several yards too far back to see. This is a fitness, competence and ability issue.

The referees are just as guilty of incompetence at times - and it IS too often. It's a fast flowing game and yes, I understand decisions aren't always easy, so why not change the system to ensure these errors happen less? The belief that these 'errors will even out over the season' is a misnomer because these decisions can have huge implications and effects on a team being promoted, staying up or being relegated! It's huge to most clubs in the league and a matter of survival for many, too. There's too much at stake to allow human error and poor split-second judgement so much wiggle-room in the modern game. If you're of the brief that past errors will correct themselves during the season then it's either naievity or wishful thinking at best.

It's clear we need to have a system that SUPPORTS the referees and protects them integrity of the game. If not VAR then it needs to be a streamlined system of cameras, sensors -- albeit, not immune to the odd faults and error, too.

What I'm saying is, as sports science evolves so does the game. Players are becoming faster and so are games. Decisions matter, massively. Human referee error is only going to become more of a problem in the future and so the advent of technology being more widely used is more likely inevitable... either that or referee standards and decision making just keeps declining. Referees, for the most part, have a tough career but it is one they've likely CHOSEN. Any complaints they gather about 'expectations of fans being too high' is, in my humble opinion, an absolute deflection. At no point has this referee addressed the issues leading to the abuse, but also offers no solutions or statement on reasoning other than to say the supporters are the problem.

Unless something changes, nothing changes.

 

[swansvalleyjack]

The belief that these 'errors will even out over the season' is a misnomer because these decisions can have huge implications and effects on a team being promoted, staying up or being relegated

It's clear we need to have a system that SUPPORTS the referees and protects them integrity of the game. If not VAR then it needs to be a streamlined system of cameras, sensors -- albeit, not immune to the odd faults and error, too.

Unless something changes, nothing changes.

You make some valid points, but I do think that, broadly, these things do even out over a 46 game season. There will be a refereeing mistake, likely a clear and obvious mistake, for every team over a year.

But for say 44 or whatever other games, a team looking for promotion or seeking to avoid relegation should get what they deserve points wise. The league positions don't usually lie. So if a team suffers a clear and obvious ref mistake in game 2 they have the rest of the season to put it right. And of course in game 22 the ref might let us off an obvious penalty to the other side.

If a team suffers a mistake in game 44, then they had the whole of the previous games to get enough points. That team can't say that the ref cost them promotion. Could also be that in game 43 their striker missed an open goal. That's where I say "broadly" speaking, things even out as between players and refs

The killer though is a one-off game like a final or a cup game ( yes I remember Aguero) where there is no chance for redemption. ( And there we should have had VAR to rectify the ref's mistake). Technology in the game is a way forward to help referees but there's a long way to go yet for VAR. Changing football rules eg handball and offside toenails will also help.

Anyway, no refs - no football. So abuse at our peril.

 

[JustJack]

Get competent referees into the game and you'll see the rate of abuse they receive go down. Sure, the players and supporters of a team being penalized won't be happy but the visible rise of quality will be noticed by everyone, eventually. They'll be seen a lot less as spineless idiots if they did their job professionally.

Clearly, not all referees are subject to the volume of errors and dubious calls others make.

There have been many occasions where I, along with others around me in the stands, have noticed the linesmen/women not keeping up with the defensive line and attack, they're completely missing offsides, handballs and even line crosses - so when asked whether they saw any infractions they're obviously several yards too far back to see. This is a fitness, competence and ability issue.

The referees are just as guilty of incompetence at times - and it IS too often. It's a fast flowing game and yes, I understand decisions aren't always easy, so why not change the system to ensure these errors happen less? The belief that these 'errors will even out over the season' is a misnomer because these decisions can have huge implications and effects on a team being promoted, staying up or being relegated! It's huge to most clubs in the league and a matter of survival for many, too. There's too much at stake to allow human error and poor split-second judgement so much wiggle-room in the modern game. If you're of the brief that past errors will correct themselves during the season then it's either naievity or wishful thinking at best.

It's clear we need to have a system that SUPPORTS the referees and protects them integrity of the game. If not VAR then it needs to be a streamlined system of cameras, sensors -- albeit, not immune to the odd faults and error, too.

What I'm saying is, as sports science evolves so does the game. Players are becoming faster and so are games. Decisions matter, massively. Human referee error is only going to become more of a problem in the future and so the advent of technology being more widely used is more likely inevitable... either that or referee standards and decision making just keeps declining. Referees, for the most part, have a tough career but it is one they've likely CHOSEN. Any complaints they gather about 'expectations of fans being too high' is, in my humble opinion, an absolute deflection. At no point has this referee addressed the issues leading to the abuse, but also offers no solutions or statement on reasoning other than to say the supporters are the problem.

Unless something changes, nothing changes.

So you're telling me that if a referee has a perfect game in a 1-0 scoreline (example), then they would recieve no abuse at all from any spectators?

 

[Smurph]

So you're telling me that if a referee has a perfect game in a 1-0 scoreline (example), then they would recieve no abuse at all from any spectators?

Define abuse?

In the example you've set out both sets of fans would leave the stadium satisfied with the ref's handling of the game. What is there to get abusive about.

We've lost plenty of games without having a go at the referee due to the defeat.

 

[BendJack]

So you're telling me that if a referee has a perfect game in a 1-0 scoreline (example), then they would recieve no abuse at all from any spectators?

No. You're conflating. What I said was, off supporters can see the referees officiating well then the reasons for abuse go down. It's simple cause and effect.

I didn't say you would see it end completely - many people like to vent, of course. However, if you give someone less reason to believe you're incompetent, guess what happens...

 

[JustJack]

No. You're conflating. What I said was, off supporters can see the referees officiating well then the reasons for abuse go down. It's simple cause and effect.

I didn't say you would see it end completely - many people like to vent, of course. However, if you give someone less reason to believe you're incompetent, guess what happens...

So what you're confirming is that despite a perfect game, there will still be reasons to abuse the referee.

So increased competency makes little difference to the overall problem, does it? Because competency of a referee has no impact on the emotional regulation of the individual in the stands, which is the actual problem.

Can you see the conundrum in effect? When you have two competitive teams playing and one loses, then the competence of the referee is inconsequential and makes no difference to the end outcome which is always the same, I.e blame the referee

Call it the 90 minute toddler effect, when fans don't get what they want they look for the easiest source of blame to mask their frustration, mirroring a small child