I thought I was dreaming the 20mph limit

[jack123]

There's no evidence to back up anything they're saying though, is there? It's all anecdotal evidence. I imagine WG have looked at the actual statistics that have resulted from the trial and worked from that rather than people moaning. If evidence showed there was actually more accidents in the area after the 20mph limit was introduced, or air pollution was worse, then they'd have a point.

Let's face it, there's a proportion of the population who will moan at absolutely anything, so we can't base huge infrastructure decisions on how many people moan about something.

Sounds good all that, :lol:

But I will tell you, that you are wrong. You should take it from the horses mouth, from the people that have experienced this for a longer period.

You say you imagine WG have looked at the actual statistics, Guess what there are none, the report was released in March from TFW, it's just a load of twaddle, and they say a lot longer would be needed for accident and air pollution stats, a brief look at it, and the only stats I can see were, the compliance of drivers obeying the new limits.

 

[JackSomething]

Sounds good all that, :lol:

But I will tell you, that you are wrong. You should take it from the horses mouth, from the people that have experienced this for a longer period.

You say you imagine WG have looked at the actual statistics, Guess what there are none, the report was released in March from TFW, it's just a load of twaddle, and they say a lot longer would be needed for accident and air pollution stats, a brief look at it, and the only stats I can see were, the compliance of drivers obeying the new limits.

So let me just clarify something, because this sounds an awful lot like your view about road protests.

When it comes to climate change, you want ironclad evidence and find a reason to invalidate every source provided to you. Now the anecdotal evidence of randoms on the street is all you need because they're agreeing with your point of view. Bit inconsistent that, isn't it?

 

[jack123]

So let me just clarify something, because this sounds an awful lot like your view about road protests.

When it comes to climate change, you want ironclad evidence and find a reason to invalidate every source provided to you. Now the anecdotal evidence of randoms on the street is all you need because they're agreeing with your point of view. Bit inconsistent that, isn't it?

Come on now, don't use distraction, you commented on an article, saying there is no evidence to back up what they were saying, and inferred the WG had some, I have only pointed out, that the WG don't have any.

 

[JackSomething]

Come on now, don't use distraction, you commented on an article, saying there is no evidence to back up what they were saying, and inferred the WG had some, I have only pointed out, that the WG don't have any.

I took the logical position that the WG would have used the pilot schemes to gather data. You yourself said a report was released, but 'it's just a load of twaddle'. There is no evidence what the people were saying though, is there?

You also said I should take it from the 'horses mouth, from the people that have experienced this for a longer period.' So random people should be believed when they agree with you, but no source is good enough when it's something you disagree with.

 

[jack123]

I took the logical position that the WG would have used the pilot schemes to gather data. You yourself said a report was released, but 'it's just a load of twaddle'. There is no evidence what the people were saying though, is there?

You also said I should take it from the 'horses mouth, from the people that have experienced this for a longer period.' So random people should be believed when they agree with you, but no source is good enough when it's something you disagree with.

Oh right, so you are saying the people in Flintshire are lying or making it up?, It's quite obvious in these circumstances they don't need data to prove what they are saying. Such as this :"In recent days, we've noticed a lot more dangerous driving, near misses and a few accidents.:

But you say where's the data to prove that? You say I took the logical position that WG would have used the pilot schemes, I agree that's the whole point of them one would have thought. I would hazard a guess, they do have the statistics, but they were not favourable to what the WG wanted to impose, so have said we will do it, over a longer period of time.

It's nothing but a scam. You can use stats to manipulate some people, but not me.

 

[JackSomething]

Oh right, so you are saying the people in Flintshire are lying or making it up?, It's quite obvious in these circumstances they don't need data to prove what they are saying. Such as this :"In recent days, we've noticed a lot more dangerous driving, near misses and a few accidents.:

But you say where's the data to prove that? You say I took the logical position that WG would have used the pilot schemes, I agree that's the whole point of them one would have thought. I would hazard a guess, they do have the statistics, but they were not favourable to what the WG wanted to impose, so have said we will do it, over a longer period of time.

It's nothing but a scam. You can use stats to manipulate some people, but not me.

But some random people saying things you agree with can manipulate you?

I don't disagree with your second paragraph by the way. It wouldn't be the first time that a government would ignore the results of pilot schemes or data analysis to press ahead with something they're in favour of.

 

[jack123]

But some random people saying things you agree with can manipulate you?

I don't disagree with your second paragraph by the way. It wouldn't be the first time that a government would ignore the results of pilot schemes or data analysis to press ahead with something they're in favour of.

No they can't manipulate me, just confirm what I already think.

 

[JackSomething]

No they can't manipulate me, just confirm what I already think.

You might want to look up confirmation bias, but the Swans are finally winning so I'm going to leave you to it.

 

[jack123]

You might want to look up confirmation bias, but the Swans are finally winning so I'm going to leave you to it.

I have a dream, that one day someone will say, you know what you are right. :lol:

 

[exiledclaseboy]

So nearly a week on and it appears Wales hasn’t ground to a halt but a lot of people have had a collective tantrum.

 

[jack123]

So nearly a week on and it appears Wales hasn’t ground to a halt but a lot of people have had a collective tantrum.

Let's face it though, only because the majority are ignoring it. Like if you know where all the fixed and mobile cameras are in Swansea, I think it would be a bit silly to suddenly start driving as if you are on a funeral procession. Kind of weird though, yesterday, travelling down a familiar route, which I know there is a fixed gatso, car in front, I would estimate speed between 30-35, as I approach camera, I slow down to about 18mph, but the chap in front maintained the same speed, I was like ferking hell!! Or does he know they are not calibrated yet?

 

[rockinj]

First post back for a long time and had to comment here. My word the political allegiances are still so palpable.

This policy is a crock of sh1t and is incredibly damaging for people who need their cars for most of the day e.g. healthcare workers in the community. People cite evidence there is no evidence, it’s simply loaded research.

If you say reduce limits leads to lower deaths well why not motorways to 50mph. Why not limit households to one car? Where do you go with this?

If you look at from the point of view in the round of stopping and thinking distance of course it’s safer. If you look at it from the point of view of heightened stress levels, road rage, lower economic activity etc etc then it’s not so good.

Who is going to argue with certain areas having 20mph of course that makes sense near schools being obvious example.

Wales is consistently pitching itself as closed for business, I simply don’t get it and never have. We are the poorest part of the UK and we continue to make choices that exacerbate our issues e.g. M4 relief road. Why was this not done? Why do we just shrug at this lack of dynamism.

I speak to so many people who hold similar thoughts but we’re in a limbo situation where we collectively can’t or won’t vote conservative. Plaid Cymru are hopeless, gutless and are almost an extension of labour. The liberals are nowhere.

Where does this lead us? I’m asking serious questions here. I would love Wales to be a green energy power house but you don’t do this by anything other than massive infrastructure expansion and being attractive to outside investment with a focus on driving up standards in eg education. All we ever talk about is deprivation, never about how we can push and ‘keep’ the brightest from going over the border.

Signalling is a big thing in economics, the mood music in Wales is one of managed decline. It’s a Country that is timid, lacking a vision and simply cosseted by a red comfort blanket. I don’t know how we move forward though because tories are shocking, we have no credible moderate parties with any traction and we have a media that is overwhelmingly close to the Cardiff Bay Establishment.

This isn’t about 20mph it’s much bigger than that, it’s a wider malaise and a feeling of being controlled. I expect the usual responses but I’d like to think one or two will have a think.

 

[PSumbler]

First post back for a long time and had to comment here. My word the political allegiances are still so palpable.

This policy is a crock of sh1t and is incredibly damaging for people who need their cars for most of the day e.g. healthcare workers in the community. People cite evidence there is no evidence, it’s simply loaded research.

If you say reduce limits leads to lower deaths well why not motorways to 50mph. Why not limit households to one car? Where do you go with this?

If you look at from the point of view in the round of stopping and thinking distance of course it’s safer. If you look at it from the point of view of heightened stress levels, road rage, lower economic activity etc etc then it’s not so good.

Who is going to argue with certain areas having 20mph of course that makes sense near schools being obvious example.

Wales is consistently pitching itself as closed for business, I simply don’t get it and never have. We are the poorest part of the UK and we continue to make choices that exacerbate our issues e.g. M4 relief road. Why was this not done? Why do we just shrug at this lack of dynamism.

I speak to so many people who hold similar thoughts but we’re in a limbo situation where we collectively can’t or won’t vote conservative. Plaid Cymru are hopeless, gutless and are almost an extension of labour. The liberals are nowhere.

Where does this lead us? I’m asking serious questions here. I would love Wales to be a green energy power house but you don’t do this by anything other than massive infrastructure expansion and being attractive to outside investment with a focus on driving up standards in eg education. All we ever talk about is deprivation, never about how we can push and ‘keep’ the brightest from going over the border.

Signalling is a big thing in economics, the mood music in Wales is one of managed decline. It’s a Country that is timid, lacking a vision and simply cosseted by a red comfort blanket. I don’t know how we move forward though because tories are shocking, we have no credible moderate parties with any traction and we have a media that is overwhelmingly close to the Cardiff Bay Establishment.

This isn’t about 20mph it’s much bigger than that, it’s a wider malaise and a feeling of being controlled. I expect the usual responses but I’d like to think one or two will have a think.

Welcome back!

 

[Swanjaxs]

First post back for a long time and had to comment here. My word the political allegiances are still so palpable.

This policy is a crock of sh1t and is incredibly damaging for people who need their cars for most of the day e.g. healthcare workers in the community. People cite evidence there is no evidence, it’s simply loaded research.

If you say reduce limits leads to lower deaths well why not motorways to 50mph. Why not limit households to one car? Where do you go with this?

If you look at from the point of view in the round of stopping and thinking distance of course it’s safer. If you look at it from the point of view of heightened stress levels, road rage, lower economic activity etc etc then it’s not so good.

Who is going to argue with certain areas having 20mph of course that makes sense near schools being obvious example.

Wales is consistently pitching itself as closed for business, I simply don’t get it and never have. We are the poorest part of the UK and we continue to make choices that exacerbate our issues e.g. M4 relief road. Why was this not done? Why do we just shrug at this lack of dynamism.

I speak to so many people who hold similar thoughts but we’re in a limbo situation where we collectively can’t or won’t vote conservative. Plaid Cymru are hopeless, gutless and are almost an extension of labour. The liberals are nowhere.

Where does this lead us? I’m asking serious questions here. I would love Wales to be a green energy power house but you don’t do this by anything other than massive infrastructure expansion and being attractive to outside investment with a focus on driving up standards in eg education. All we ever talk about is deprivation, never about how we can push and ‘keep’ the brightest from going over the border.

Signalling is a big thing in economics, the mood music in Wales is one of managed decline. It’s a Country that is timid, lacking a vision and simply cosseted by a red comfort blanket. I don’t know how we move forward though because tories are shocking, we have no credible moderate parties with any traction and we have a media that is overwhelmingly close to the Cardiff Bay Establishment.

This isn’t about 20mph it’s much bigger than that, it’s a wider malaise and a feeling of being controlled. I expect the usual responses but I’d like to think one or two will have a think.

More like a thesis than a comment mate...

 

[Neath_Jack]

So a week has past, and everything is still moving as it was pre 20mph. Colour me surprised.