Just Stop Oil

[jack123]

Anybody want this before I burn it?
Open to offers...

swansea-city-away-football-shirt-1993-1994-s_23018_1.jpg

Lovely top, don't burn it.

 

[Swanjaxs]

Lovely top, don't burn it.

Best Swans away since 81 in my honest opinion mush

 

[jack123]

Best Swans away since 81 in my honest opinion mush

It's a cracker Sj, and I feel somewhat sad seeing, it just reminds me how quick time is going on.. Seems like yesterday, but it's over 40 years wow..

 

[gadget1974]

There’s no evidence of climate change? Righto.

Of course there is evidence of climate change, I guess the question is whether there is evidence of man made activity causing it which is a very different question.

For the record, I am pro reducing pollution as it's the right thing to do.

We know as a matter of scientific fact that that climate change and global warming/cooling happens, but we also know it's been happening since long before man existed on this planet. We have evidence of previous ice ages. We know that things like El Nino are cyclical.

We certainly aren't helping with the amount we pollute, but the UK I suspect pollutes far less than it did during the industrial revolution, and the challenge now should be to get china and india to look towards cleaner forms of energy production - only then will there be any kind of noticeable impact.

 

[Itchysphincter]

Thanks for the update. You'll be telling me that bears sh!t in the woods next.

People need to get off this ridiculous idea that the UK is a clean country and that the blame lies with India or China.... yes, other countries who have more recently had their own industrial revolutions may be massive polluters but one of the biggest reasons that they are and we are not is because we send all of our manufacturing overseas and import everything back. Our lack of homegrown industry is one of the biggest drivers of overseas coal fired industry and pollution.

It's very simple and it's largely been driven by a couple of generations of conservativism, as has just about every other crisis currently crippling the nation. Not simple enough for the like of j123 but very simple all the same.

This is not an opnion.

FACT.

 

[legoman]

I'm hoping some clever clogs on here can help me with something that I struggle with when considering climate change (I do accept it's happening by the way, I'm just not sure about the extent of man's contribution). These days we have highly advanced technology that allows us to measure temperatures just about anywhere on the planet at any time of the day or night, so we are able to track trends, I get that.
But go back just a few hundred years, maybe not even that, and clearly we cannot say that recording of temperature measurement was anywhere near as accurate.
I accept we can look at ice core samples and tree rings and all that good stuff but you can't tell me we can determine how the temperature of the planet varied between the years say10,000 BC and 9,500BC. So what I'm saying is how do we distinguish between natural planetary temperature changes and those attributable to human activity? And please don't label me a climate change denier, I'm certainly not.

 

[J_B]

Thanks for the update. You'll be telling me that bears sh!t in the woods next.

People need to get off this ridiculous idea that the UK is a clean country and that the blame lies with India or China.... yes, other countries who have more recently had their own industrial revolutions may be massive polluters but one of the biggest reasons that they are and we are not is because we send all of our manufacturing overseas and import everything back. Our lack of homegrown industry is one of the biggest drivers of overseas coal fired industry and pollution.

It's very simple and it's largely been driven by a couple of generations of conservativism, as has just about every other crisis currently crippling the nation. Not simple enough for the like of j123 but very simple all the same.

This is not an opnion.

FACT.

Great post and spot on.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Best Swans away since 81 in my honest opinion mush

The best away kit in our esteemed history has to be the black and white hooped effort from around 1988 ish, Shirley.

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

Of course there is evidence of climate change, I guess the question is whether there is evidence of man made activity causing it which is a very different question.

For the record, I am pro reducing pollution as it's the right thing to do.

We know as a matter of scientific fact that that climate change and global warming/cooling happens, but we also know it's been happening since long before man existed on this planet. We have evidence of previous ice ages. We know that things like El Nino are cyclical.

We certainly aren't helping with the amount we pollute, but the UK I suspect pollutes far less than it did during the industrial revolution, and the challenge now should be to get china and india to look towards cleaner forms of energy production - only then will there be any kind of noticeable impact.

Yes, there’s plenty of evidence our actions are leading to rapid increases of greenhouse gases that are leading to extremely rapid temp changes. That’s not inconsistent with there being pre-human climate changes. Both can occur. Some geological changes were far greater than we’re seeing now, but we weren’t around to be impacted. The possibly unprecedented rates of change we’re seeing as a result of our activity impact us (and other species; we’re probably triggering another mass extinction, the first for 66 million years).

As for the Industrial Revolution, it depends on what you mean by pollution and over which time period. We (the UK) currently emit about four times the amount of CO2 than we did at then end of our IR (1750-1840). Globally, CO2 emissions really started taking off in the 50s/60s, with temperature following shortly after. Of course back in the past in the UK there were other pollutants that caused issues (e.g. smogs from coal burning) that have improved substantially since). Some of the rivers used to be in a much worse state too, but this localised pollution wasn’t particularly relevant to climate change.

We do all need to act, agreed. Personally, I think we’ll influence countries like China and India not by preaching, but by leading the way in showing how cleaner technologies are more financially attractive. They’ll soon adopt if it’s in their financial interest.

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

I'm hoping some clever clogs on here can help me with something that I struggle with when considering climate change (I do accept it's happening by the way, I'm just not sure about the extent of man's contribution). These days we have highly advanced technology that allows us to measure temperatures just about anywhere on the planet at any time of the day or night, so we are able to track trends, I get that.
But go back just a few hundred years, maybe not even that, and clearly we cannot say that recording of temperature measurement was anywhere near as accurate.
I accept we can look at ice core samples and tree rings and all that good stuff but you can't tell me we can determine how the temperature of the planet varied between the years say10,000 BC and 9,500BC. So what I'm saying is how do we distinguish between natural planetary temperature changes and those attributable to human activity? And please don't label me a climate change denier, I'm certainly not.

Exactly as you’ve said. Using proxy records from land, sea and ice records (normally ice, marine and lake cores and looking at the geochemical signature, critters* and pollen in them).

There’s a large global network of these sites that allow pretty detailed temperature reconstructions that also overlap with some instrumental records that can be used to confirm/calibrate the proxy records). Tree rings, carbon dating and volcanic deposits tie all these records together (not without challenges of course).